Alright so for philosophy we have to make a claim about something (examples: whether or not God exists, if contingent things have causes, if there is a First Cause, etc.), and then present an argument leading to the conclusion. There are a lot of great ideas, but I'm having a bit of a problem; I don't have a firm, concrete set of beliefs. Instead, I have this abstract construction of ideas and possibilities that I currently see acceptable for my beliefs. And the thing about having unnecessarily sure beliefs, is that when you debate about abstract ideas and end up with a giant ball of convolution, your beliefs are less sure than they were before (assuming you didn't get an epiphany).
So let's get some things straight before I delve into my part-class discussion, part-self-indulgence via notebook:
1.) Assume that I essentially have no understanding of the Bible. That is to say, I'm 99% sure that I won't be referencing the Bible after this sentence.
2.) When I refer to "God," I will do my best to say "a God," since there are religions who believe in "God," yet this God is different across religions. So I will say "a God" as often as I can.
3.) I don't necessarily believe in a God, but rather the idea of a God. This one is a little harder to make clear for people, but perhaps I'll do that in the next few hundred words.
And let the fun begin...
So the claim I was working on at the end of class was that God and evil can coexist. The latter is obviously much easier to prove - bad things happen to people who cannot control these bad things, and bad things result from them, and people suffer. Examples would include the Holocaust, Columbine, Hurricane Katrina, and the Haiti Earthquake, meaning that physical evil and suffering can be either intentional or naturally occurring. Proving that evil exists seems easy enough. The difficult part is proving that God does or does not exist simultaneously with physical evil and suffering. There is the argument that an omniscient, omnipotent (all-knowing, all-powerful, respectively) God would stop physical evil, and thus since there exists physical evil and suffering, this God does not exist. Here's my argument with that one - why couldn't another God exist? He doesn't have to be omnipotent, he could just have created the universe and all of that stuff (alright, so I alluded to Genesis, my bad), and then let us do what we want with our lives. Otherwise known as free will. I believe in free will as opposed to predestination, because the latter is frankly not fun to live by. If your life is set in stone from day one, what's the fun in that? And with this free will, people make decisions that affect a number of people in a negative way (see: Hitler). Now what you may be thinking right now is the whole "everything happens for a reason" rebuttal. I don't believe that at all. Sure, you can see the silver lining in bad events, but wouldn't it be better if the entire event was lined with silver? I don't buy in to the argument that God put evil on Earth for a reason, because if he truly was perfectly good and omnipotent, then I believe that He wouldn't do that.
In the same ballpark as free will is the concept that things can sometimes be completely out of our control, like natural disasters. I would even throw the people who fall into the category of "wrong place, wrong time" into the realm of things out of their control. What about the safe driver who is hit by a drunk driver and dies? It unfortunately happens, and the cause of death is out of the victim's control.
After typing all of this and reassessing my exact arguments towards making this claim, I conclude that it is possible for evil and God to coexist, since there can exist a God who created the Earth and gives us free will, and with that free will, humans make decisions that impact others - sometimes for good, and in this case, sometimes for bad.
I agree with nearly everything you say here but,
ReplyDelete"It unfortunately happens, and the cause of death is out of the victim's control"
related to this, I believe that this imaginary accident would be in the control of someone(the drunk driver)rather than it being the fault of predestination. It is the fault of someones free will to make the mistake of drinking and driving. So it was still a case of free will, just bad luck on the victim's end. I assume you too believe this but didn't mention it which leads the reader to think the situation would not be free will to an extent.
I definitely agree with you there in saying that it's bad luck on the victim's part and a misuse of free will for the drunk driver - the point I was trying to make (which may not have been totally clear) is that for the victim, some events aren't in their control (in this case, the control of the situation was in the hands of the drunk driver).
ReplyDeletegood point here
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"God does not play dice." - Albert Einstein
ReplyDeleteI know this may seem a bit at odds with your whole argument above, but I plan to use theology to substantiate this overused and often watered down claim that "everything happens for a reason." To be perfectly clear, that statement simply could not make sense unless there is an omnipotent and benevolent creator at the other end of it. For if God created the heavens, the earth, and each and every atom that coalesces to form this great thing of grandeur we call the universe, I seriously doubt he would simply discontinue His presence in it. That would be like Bill Gates making the microsoft corporation, and hiring every single employee, and forming every little sub division under it, and then promptly moving to Ukraine and ignoring everything related to microsoft. It is not only an improbable act, but a simply careless act, that a benevolent god would not foster, if he intended to stay in line with his claims of benevolence. For we humans have an unfortunate yet all too natural habit to do harm unto the world and all in it rather senselessly.
Fot Instance, I'll use your example of a drunk driver, careening down the street, and in the process, colliding with a family of 5 peacefully heading home from a nice dinner (To be clear, this actually happened, I'll send you a link to the video if you wish). Consequently, two of the family man's children were killed in the accident, as well as his wife, while the guilty party was left nearly unharmed. Yet, this man, who had every right to hate the guilty with all of his life, found it in his heart to forgive the man, through the help of his God. Thus, after telling the now jailed guilty man of his forgiveness of him, the guilty party was then led to a relationship with this same God. At the same time, this story most likely led many others to this same God, as there is indeed, a great and beautiful plan behind this life, as orchestrated by this same omnipotent and benevolent God.
Great argument Kevin, I like it a lot. There really isn't anything I can explicitly refute with your argument because it does make sense - unfortunately, I'm not sure if I'm personally convinced, and these reasons are inexplicable - that's just how I am and how my belief system operates right now. It sounds like you are firm in your beliefs, which is perfectly respectable, but I will remind you, to each his own. The beauty about religion is that each person can construct his or her own system of beliefs, and after reading your comment, it's something that I will consider as possible (for this type of God to exist) - I'm not saying it will change my beliefs but it certainly leaves one to speculate. If you have a link to the story of the man in the accident I would love to read about it, because it does sound inspiring.
ReplyDeleteHere's the video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7zwQ_7q-fU&playnext=1&list=PL4E784EC0770935C0
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm Catholic, I can't, in truth, deny the potency of this message, despite the fact that it was made by the Mormon Church (not that I've any quarrel with the Church of Latter Day Saints). Anyway, evangelization would be a far too easy and menial task if a simple blog proposition could entirely change a person's heart (not that I've any quarrel with blogs, {see what I did there?}). And If you're interested in this type of apologetics and theology I brought to the table, try reading C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, or simply look into C.S. Lewis' journey to faith, which is yours is beginning to mimic from what I can tell!
I have to agree, this video does hold a lot of power for anyone, regardless of their beliefs. One thing I found interesting was the interplay between prior beliefs and ability to forgive - Chris was so willing to forgive because of his faith, and I wonder if I would be able to do the same because of my speculative beliefs. Either way, I do believe that acknowledging what happened and letting it go is certainly an admirable and proper way to handle hardships. Like I said, I'm open to discussion with this sort of topic, so I'll give a look into C.S. Lewis, and see if anything comes as a result of it. Thank you for showing me this video.
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